Re: GC Commercial Trips & free rides

Carl Anderson (carl@moab-canyonlands.com)
Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:51:47 -0600


At 08:08 PM 9/17/97 +0600, you wrote:
>
>I have not been a guide in the Canyon, but I have in Idaho. My company had
>a policy that each guide was allowed to take one person per season down as
>a guest without their having to pay. This person could go as long as the
>space was not sold - if a paying customer called up for a trip, the guest
>got bumped. One year I wanted to take both my parents on the Middle Fork.
>The company cut me some slack because it was my parents and all that - they
>both came and paid 20% to cover food and fly-in expenses.
>
>My boyfriend worked as a guide in the Canyon. That company had a similar
>policy that people could have a guest a season (with some variations, I
>think - new guides didn't get that perk, old guides could have 2 per season
>- something like that). Those guests were expected to work - load, rig,
>clean and cook. In Idaho, usually guests were supposed to work too, though
>again, with my parents, no-one expected them to work.
>
>There are instances where friends of friends who are guides elsewhere or
>something hop on a trip if there is space. It didn't happen very often.
>With girlfriends and boyfriends - that seems to help people get a job with
>the company, but not a whole bunch of freebie trips as a guest.
>
>In Idaho anyway, the maximum trip size is fixed and each permit carries the
>same number of launch dates a year so there is no "user-day" incentive to
>add people to trips if they are not paying customers. You get your user
>days whether or not you used them the previous year. It's the company's
>loss if they don't fill their trips.
>
>So, that's the deal I've worked with. I think it is eminently fair. In an
>industry that offers no benefits to its employees, this is one of the few
>perks available to guides. With one guest per guide per season, I don't
>think it is an abuse or violates anyone's rights. Guides do in fact work
>very hard - I don't think it's a bad thing to let them take one friend with
>them once.
>
>I'm on this list 'cause I love the Canyon and want to do a trip there soon
>if I can, but I am also a guide elsewhere and know commercial boating
>inside and out. There is a lot of anti-commercial sentiment expressed in
>this group which I think is a pity. I think much of it is born of
>ignorance. Guides are private boaters when they are not working and are
>very sympathetic to the needs of private boaters in general if only because
>their own interests are also involved. They also tolerate a lot of crap
>from a lot of private boaters who are not as aware, often, of river
>etiquette, or who run rivers over their abilities. I have saved a lot of
>private asses over the years. Commercial guide are not evil - they're
>usually nice people who know a lot about hte river and love it. Give 'em a
>break.
>
>Judy
>
As an ex commercial guide myself I think that Judy is right. My first
river trip was as a "swamper" in Cataract Canyon. I became a private
boater before I was a commercial guide. Quite a few outfitters take
advantage of the guides working for them and there are no benefits
(insurance, retirement, etc.) except being able to occasionaly take a
friend. It is hard work and my back can attest to that (I'm 10% disabled
from back injury due to working on the river!). As a private that uses
motorboats I get crap from both sides: privates who row and commercials who
row. Commercials using motors and the NPS patrols always want to know what
company I'm with!

This list server is and should be a place for exchanging information that
leads to better utilization of a very scarec rescource: Private River
Permits in Grand Canyon. I think that a lot of the discussion/complaints
that are going on right now are just the result of the fact that the NPS is
starting to review the CRMP and peoples ideas are coming out (along with
their frustrations).

I believe that all of the ideas have merit and hopefuly the NPS will arrive
at a better system because of all the input they are getting. Lets keep
this forum open without getting into negative insults against anyone and
any group (you never know where your friends really are!).

Carl Anderson

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