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I was afraid someone was going to ask that. It is a mark of shame, perhaps,
that I use MS products, but it works for most people.
Here is are the summaries in a tab-delimited text file, which you ought to
be able to import into something. That's probably the best I can do without
enhancing my education, but let me know if you have problems.
Antony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse [mailto:el@linux.lisse.na]
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 12:54 PM
> To: Antony Van Couvering
> Cc: DNSO Drafting List; DNSO Mail List; el@linux.lisse.na
> Subject: Re: Summary of discuss list 12/15/98 - 1/5/99 for drafting team
>
>
>
> Anthony,
>
> I can not read Microsnot formats. Can you please send it to me in
> another format, please? I am particularily fond of SGML and there is a
> SGML authoring package for word somewhere.
>
> el
>
>
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Date Author Category Summary
12/15/98 John B. Reynolds Names Council =93Am I reading this correctly =
=96 Names Council members are elected by the
"Entire DNSO membership, rather than by the consituencies they =
represent? If" =09
"One or two constituencies constitute a majority of DNSO members, they =
could" =09
Determine the entire NC membership.=94 =09
17-Dec Bill Semich Fair Hearing Panels/ new gTLDS "Says that it was =
consensus in Mty that we would have fair hearing panels, in response to =
Einar Steffarud=92s call for a fair hearing panel to deal with =
prospective gTLDs"
17-Dec Ken Stubbs Fair Hearing Panels/ new gTLDS "Agrees that we had =
consensus on fair hearing panels, but wants to see more meat on the =
bones on how they would be conducted. Urges Einar Steffarud to propose =
language for incorporation into the draft proposal"
17-Dec Herbert Vitzum Fair Hearing Panels/ new gTLDS "Agrees that we =
should have fair hearing panels. Thinks that there should be an open =
objective process for applying for a new gTLD, if they are followed, the =
new gTLD should be allowed"
17-Dec Michael Sondow Names Council "Wants to clarify that it was agreed =
that the six seats on the NC allotted to TLDs will be composed of 3 from =
ccTLDs, 3 from gTLDs"
17-Dec Michael Sondow Members "Doesn=92t think we agreed that NC should =
decide who=92s a member. Let criteria be established, then decide =
objectively on the basis of that criteria. Looks unfair and is more =
work for NC if NC decides."
17-Dec Michael Sondow Members Thinks definition for =93at-large=94 is =
flawed. Wants language talking about incorporation taken out. There =
are many persons and groups who should be qualified who are not =
incorporated entities.
17-Dec Kent Crispin Names Council "Disputes M. Sondow=92s idea that it =
was explicitly agreed that there should be 3 NC seats for ccTLDs and 3 =
for gTLDs. He notes that it was envisaged that this would *eventually* =
happen, but that the practical effect of putting it into practice =
immediately would be to given NSI 3 seats, since there are no other =
gTLDs."
12/17/98 Cliff Dilloway Fair Hearing Panels Wants to see a definition of =
Fair Hearing Panels.
12/17/98 Michael Sondow Names Council Wants to see phasing in of seats =
from ccTLDs to gTLDs made explicit in the draft application.
12/17/98 Michael Sondow Members Agrees with Kent Crispin=92s suggestion =
that Appendix B should add a section F to define =93at-large=94 =
membership; notes that the concept is fuzzy at the moment
12/18/98 Einar Steffarud Fair Hearing Panels "Wants to add FHP in an =
advisory role to the NC, chosen from regions. Thinks it difficult and =
unwieldy to have a =93Board of Directors=94 geographically represented, =
wants the FHP to bear the weight of geographical balancing. Wants this =
written into bylaws."
12/18/98 Einar Steffarud Names Council Sees the ccTLD/gTLD initial 5/1 =
split as ignoring aspirant gTLDs. Wants therefore to weight the 6 TLD =
NC seats between ccTLDs and =93gTLD interests=94. Notes that he made =
same proposal in Monterrey.
12/18/98 Kent Crispin Names Council "ccTLD/gTLD 5/1 split a =93side =
discussion=94, not written in. Sees aspiring gTLDs as a transient =
group, because either their aspirations will be fulfilled, or not. =
Therefore permanent representation on NC is pointless."
12/18/98 Bret Fausett Legal Structure Important to incorporate because =
lawyers will advise their clients to avoid participating in a group that =
is unincorporated and thus exposes individuals within it to personal =
liability.
12/18/98 David Schutt INTA Application Thinks that INTA definition of =
=93legitimate interest=94 as tied to a revenue threshold is a =93country =
club=94 and [he implies] should be rejected.
12/19/98 Michael Sondow INTA Application "Agrees with David Schutt that =
an economic threshold gives pause, but notes that as long as there is a =
membership category that does not have such strictures, it ought to be =
up to other constituencies to set their own guidelines for membership, =
including economic ones."
12/19/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure Thinks that B. Fausett=92s =
comments are =93dishonest=94 because SOs are integral parts of ICANN and =
can be covered by ICANN=92s corporate umbrella.
12/19/98 Michael Sondow Members Submits a proposal for a DNSO membership =
committee. To summarize:
1. Formed of one member of NC and one member from each consituency. =09
2. NC member will ensure that applicants meet minimum DNSO requirements; =
constituency members will ensure that consituency requirements are met. =
=09
"3. Membership committee will disseminate membership applications as =
widely as possible; explicitly, their goal should be to attract as many =
qualified members as possible." =09
12/19/98 David Maher Fair Hearing Panels "Stef: ""whose members are =
appointed by geopolitical regions"""
" Appointed by whom? I am still unable to see how any appointment =
process is superior to a properly structured democratic process of =
election of ""directors"" or ""Names Council"" members. David" =09
12/19/98 Kent Crispin Legal Structure "Thinks legal protection is very =
important, but wants ICANN to provide that. If they don=92t, then DNSO =
should incorporate. Wants protection, but the simplest, most effective =
possible. Agrees with B. Fausett that stringent bylaws may well =
accomplish what incorporation would, to force rigorous thinking. =
Believes that content rather than form of documents is the contentious =
issue. Thinks that Fausett=92s comments are ahead of the discussion; =
sees writing of up of documents as an =93implementation=94 issue. =
Raises point that place of incorporation, should incorporation be =
necessary, is likely to be contentious also."
12/19/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure Says that B. Fausett=92s =
suggestion that bylaws be written first is a way to force DNSO to =
incorporate so that Fausett can become its lawyer.
12/20/98 Michael Sondow INTA Application "1. Out of place for trademark =
org to submit application, since he believes it is not clear that =
trademark orgs have a clear legitimate interest in DNS matters."
2. ICIIU (Sondow=92s organization) doesn=92t recognize the authority of =
the DNSO or ICANN to regulate the relationship of domain names and =
trademarks. =09
"3. ICIIU sees INTA=92s application as an attempt to =93fabricate an =
identity=94 between domain names and trademarks in order to appopriate =
domain names for commercial use, a purpose for which they were not =
intended." =09
4. Thinks that INTA=92s idea that the DNSO should look into trademark =
problems is a usurpation of the prerogatives and jurisdiction of civil =
authorities. =09
12/20/98 Einar Steffarud Members Makes the point that a vote for a Board =
member is different than a real voice in the process. He wants members =
to have a vote and a voice.
12/21/98 Roberto Gaetano Names Council "Re: the ccTLD/gTLD 5/1 split, he =
notes that nowhere is it said that prospective gTLDs cannot be =
represented within the TLD constituency."
12/21/98 John Reynolds Legal Structure "Notes that the ICANN release =
giving guidelines to potential SOs makes it clear that (1) ICANN =
membership will be different from SO membership, and (2) SOs are legally =
separate from ICANN. Thus, if SOs don=92t incorporate separately, there =
will be no legal protection for SOs."
12/21/98 Kent Crispin Legal Structure "Disappointed by the ICANN release =
which, he thinks, leaves little choice for SOs =96 they must =
incorporate. Thinks we should proceed as if incorporation were =
necessary. "
12/21/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure "Says ICANN release goes against =
White Paper and ICANN=92s own bylaws, which define ICANN as being made =
up of the SOs. Calls the release a =93trick=94 and declares that ICANN =
cannot do this. Notes that SOs must contribute funding to ICANN, but =
ICANN won=92t provide legal protection =96 sees this as one-sided. =
Suggests that SOs are being presented with an unfair fait accompli."
12/21/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure "Says that ICANN=92s guidelines =
for SOs are in effect new bylaws, since they contravene earlier bylaws. =
Says that in effect ICANN retains all power, but lets SOs act as =
lightning rods for lawsuits. Says DNSO must consult with its lawyers to =
find if incorporation is advantageous or disadvantageous."
12/22/98 Roeland M. J. Meyer Constituencies "Argues that trademark =
interests should not be enfranchised as a constituency, they =93are not =
here in ""good faith"" and will abrogate"
"any compromises at the first opportunity. They are not above, going =
outside" =09
"the process.=94 Objects to lumping together trademark concerns with =
commercial interests, suggests they are entirely different." =09
12/22/98 Einar Steffarud Fair Hearing Panels "Fair Hearing Panels are =
advisory in nature, his idea of having them be geographically =
representative is so that regions can be assured that they will get a =
fair hearing from the panel. Suggests that we use the Internet to =
conduct FHP business."
12/22/98 Kent Crispin Legal Structure "ICANN=92s primary interest is in =
the stability of the Net. Therefore ICANN is building firewalls between =
the different and SOs and ICANN. The DNSO is by far the most likely org =
to attract lawsuits, so separating it legally from other SOs and the =
ICANN board will allow the others to get on without fear of being =
dragged into a lawsuit. "
12/22/98 Roberto Gaetano Legal Structure "If DNSO must incorporate, =
there is one less issue to discuss, we should get on with writing our =
bylaws."
12/22/98 Kent Crispin Legal Structure "Questions whether if DNSO is a =
separately incorporated entity, if it possible for it to be =
=93division=94 of ICANN, and if its members can automatically be made =
members of ICANN. Sees the issue as one of liability protection, and =
sees incorporation as the cheapest and most effective method to assure =
protection."
12/22/98 David Schutt Legal Structure "Suggests that given the lack of =
benefit to being an SO, and the risks involved, we=92d be better off =
just joining ICANN and forming an advisory body on domain name matters."
12/22/98 Amadeu Abril i Abril Legal Structure "Agrees that incorporation =
is the quickest cheapest path to legal liability protection. As to =
membership linkages, he notes that almost anything is possible with =
corporate law."
12/22/98 Roberto Gaetano Legal Structure "Suggests that if the main =
purpose of incorporation is to shield us from liability, then we might =
choose Switzerland, because it is difficult to sue (and win) against a =
Swiss not-for-profit."
12/22/98 David Maher Fair Hearing Panels "If FHPs are advisory, in what =
way do they differ from a properly representative NC?"
12/22/98 Joop Teernstra Legal Structure "Incorporation may mean legal =
liability protection, but it will also mean becoming a target for =
lawsuits. There are funding implications. How does this affect the =
SO=92s fiscal policy, and should there be a legal defense fund set up? =
Suggests Netherlands or Netherlands Antilles as useful places for =
incorporation because the distinction between for-profit and =
not-for-profit is not so fine."
12/23/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure "Says that David Schutt=92s =
12/22 message, that we should form an advisory body within ICANN, is =
what the SOs were supposed to be until ICANN turned the relationship on =
its head."
12/23/98 Einar Steffarud Legal Structure "Says that if ICANN is going to =
pursue its intention to give no shield to SOs, we should just check out =
and let ICANN form its own SO. Bad negotiating practice to agree to =
something before the terms have been worked out."
12/23/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure "Would like to see a lawyer=92s =
opinion (David Maher=92s) on the merits of incorporating. Before anyone =
signs, they should have the right to know."
12/23/98 Michael Sondow Legal Structure "Notes that a note (the release =
of guidelines for SOs) is not a =93constraint=94 on the Internet =
community, that in fact ICANN is constrained by its own bylaws and the =
White Paper."
12/23/98 Kent Crispin Legal Structure "1. A legal defense fund only =
attracts lawsuits. The DNSO, if sued, could cease to exist, then come =
back soon after. Thus, incorporation is not necessary to protect the =
DNSO itself, just its members. ICANN, however, must have protection."
"2. Must distinguish between civil liability and political liability. =
The members of the DNSO *must* have liability proection, because =
unpopular decisions will be made." =09
12/23/98 Amadeu Abril i Abril Legal Structure "Concerned that the ICANN =
process is becoming too bureaucratic; best solution is to be part of =
ICANN, not a separate incorporated entity. Recalls that at the =
Monterrey meeting we realized it was possible that we would have to =
incorporate, recalls that most participants indicated they could live =
with it either way. Wants a DNSO in any case; agrees with Michael =
Sondow on the facts, but puts a different spin on things."
12/23/98 Bret Fausett Overview "Purpose of DNSO is not to decide =
controversies, but to establish a vehicle for doing so fairly."
12/24/98 Roberto Gaetano Fair Hearing Panels "Since ICANN has the final =
say in just about everything, why not put the FHPs in ICANN?"
12/25/98 David Maher Legal Structure "Question is not whether DNSO can =
win lawsuits, but rather that it is a tremendous strain on financial =
resources to defend any lawsuit at all, spurious or not. Dislikes =
ICANN=92s current position, wants ICANN to supply legal liability =
protection. "
12/28/98 Mikki Barry Members "Wants to see mention of domain holders =
=93rights=94, since there are many references to the rights of trademark =
holders."
12/30/98 Kent Crispin Communication "Notes that we are required to have =
geographical representation, so how best to achieve this operationally. =
Notes that we have agreed to do something =93online=94, and proposes =
that DNSO, NC, and constituencies must all develop and implement online =
procedures for meeting and balloting. All official decisions must be =
online. Cost implications are not trivial."
12/30/98 Kent Crispin DNSO procedures "Wants DNSO to have explicit rules =
for voting [e.g. 50% of votes plus one rules the day]. After a long and =
cogent discussion of decision procedures he proposes a procedure whereby =
upon becoming a DNSO member, an email address is designated as the =
member=92s =93official=94 address. In a vote, balloting is done by =
email, in a standard format, in a two-stage process; stage one, a vote =
collection phase, stage two, a verification and possible protest phase. =
The method has been used successfully in PAB and other places. Smaller =
groups within the DNSO could use other methods. "
12/30/98 Michael Sondow DNSO procedures "Approves of Kent=92s discussion =
of decision procedures, notes however that attention has to be paid to =
the procedure that decides what is put up for a vote, and how the =
question is framed. Notes the =93Deliberation Space=94 developed by the =
Cyber Law Institute as a model to be examined."
1/2/99 Roberto Gaetano DNSO procedures "Agrees with Kent, wants however =
to add digital authentication (PGP), deems it will be a minimal addition =
complexity."
1/2/99 Kent Crispin DNSO procedures "Digital authentication is =
problematic because it requires a technical infrastructure, its legal =
status is unclear, and it will be daunting to some members. Chance of =
fraud is very slim even without digital authentication."
1/3/99 Roberto Gaetano Members "Encloses a suggestion from Onno Hovers, =
in which the membership structure is changed from specific =
constituencies to classes of membership within which the consituencies =
would find their place. RG suggests that we give this plan serious =
consideration as a compromise solution."
1/3/99 Michael Sondow Members "Contends that the decision to allow =
membership in more than one constituency was never =93consensualized=94 =
in Monterrey, and was not intended to allow the capture of the general =
membership vote by a single constituency."
1/3/99 Michael Sondow INTA Application "Contends that an INTA draft =
proposal was withheld from members at Monterrey, which shows duplicity, =
and that there is no justification for negotiating with INTA, it would =
result in the effective capture of the entire DNSO by the INTA."
1/3/99 Marty Schwimmer INTA application "Notes that he had only a =93for =
discussion purposes only=94 INTA draft, it had not been agreed upon by =
INTA, there was no subterfuge."
1/3/99 Kent Crispin Members "Notes that the one-member/multiple =
constituency rule was =93consensualized=94, notes various voting and =
procedural safeguards that prevent capture by a single constituency."
1/4/99 Michael Sondow INTA application "Personal attack on the integrity =
of Marty Schwimmer, focused on the idea that he wasted people=92s time =
by not sharing the INTA discussion draft."
1/4/99 Michael Sondow Members "Contends that the meeting notes showing a =
consensus doesn=92t mean it=92s so; feels that the voting rules are =
ambiguous; thinks that the power to belong to different constituencies, =
and therefore have disproportionate power in nominating candidates, is =
important. "
1/5/99 Fay Howard (CENTR) Funding CENTR opposes a =93tax=94 on =
registrations and wants registries to be able to determine their own =
methods for funding the DNSO and ICANN.
1/5/99 Fay Howard (CENTR) Members "Opposes establishment of at-large =
membership, since ICANN itself already has public membership."
1/5/99 Fay Howard (CENTR) Names Council NC should have expertise to =
develop DNS policy.
1/5/99 Fay Howard (CENTR) Overview "Recalls the consensus reached at 13 =
November meeting (concurrent with ICANN meeting) in Boston, voices its =
support for the principles agreed upon there. Compares the INTA and =
DNSO proposals for compliance with those principles."
1/5/99 Roberto Gaetano Members Membership is the area of the most =
disagreement; would like to revisit the constituency-based model.
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