----------
> From: David Yeamans, CST-7, 5-8832, dryeamans@lanl.gov
> To: tomandhazel@azaccess.com
> Cc: earlp@ihs.com; blh@hydrosphere.com
> Subject: Re: Science River Trips
> Date: Thursday, October 09, 1997 1:23 PM
>
> This reply from Robert Winfree may open some doors. What he seems to be
> saying is that he doesn't have anything to do with access, but that it is
> controlled by the river ranger. I suppose the River Ranger would give us
> the same story about using privates to outfit science trips, that is, it
is
> up to the scientists. I was not aware of the 26 member advisory panel,
but
> I see a member from American Rivers that I will petition with the private
> boater perspective. I went to the web site http://phantom.uc.usbr.gov/
and
> found some inspiration for the science studies and have mailed some
> tentative proposal ideas to the principals there.
>
> On another topic, I attended an inspirational seminar on paleowater
recharge
> tracing via U235/U238 and other radioisotope ratios. The speaker had not
> made any correlation from groundwater ratios to borehole mineralogy. It
is
> a slim straw, but one worth looking at for determining source and age of
> deposits if gross physical evidence fails.
>
> Permission granted to post part or all to servers.
>
>
>
> >Return-Path: <GRCA_Senior_Scientist@nps.gov>
> >Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 15:50:49 -0400
> >From: GRCA_Senior_Scientist@nps.gov (GRCA Senior Scientist)
> >Subject: Re: Science River Trips
> >To: "David Yeamans; CST-7; 5-8832; dryeamans@lanl.gov"
<dryeamans@lanl.gov>
> >Cc: dryeamans@lanl.gov
> >Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
> >
> > David,
> >
> > You make several good points. I'll try to take them one at a time.
> >
> > Commercial outfitters are not involved in review and approval of
> > research permits. Reviews are conducted by independent scientists
and
> > agency resource managers. Decisions are made on the basis of the
> > scientist's credentials (training, record of publication,
> > institutional support, etc.), importance of the study to park
> > management, potential impacts to resources or interference with
> > visitors, and other factors. Most permits are quite restrictive
and
> > many applications for research trips are denied. Funding of
research
> > projects is also quite competitive, and very few studies are funded
by
> > the National Park Service.
> >
> > Researchers with approved study plans are free to outfit trips as
they
> > feel appropriate, as long as they stay within NPS guidelines. Most
> > (95%+) choose one of the 16 commercial outfitters or try to hitch a
> > ride on another science trip being mounted by a Federal, state, or
> > tribal agency. I'm not aware of any specific regulations that would
> > categorically exclude private boats or boaters from participating
on
> > research trips.
> >
> > Probably the simplest way to move forward would be for you to
provide
> > some descriptive information about your organization, skills that
your
> > members could contribute to the projects, and the name, address,
> > phone, email etc. of one or two designated contacts that I could
share
> > with researchers if and when they ask. If there was interest on
both
> > sides (scientist and private boater), we could review trip requests
on
> > a case by case basis.
> >
> > Keep in mind however, that pilots of passenger carrying boats must
> > meet Grand Canyon National Park certification requirements, and the
> > trip organizer must prove liability and medical insurance for all
> > participants before the launch will be permitted. Equipment, food
> > handling, and other restrictions (e.g., drug testing) are also more
> > rigorous for commercial and science trips than for private
> > recreational trips. For those reasons, most scientists find
> > contracting with commercial outfitters to be the most convenient
and
> > efficient way to go. Requests to my office for transportation
through
> > the canyon are rare (perhaps 1 or 2 per year), but it would
probably
> > happen more often if researchers were aware of other options.
> >
> > We allow scientists to select their own staff, which quite often
> > include qualified volunteers. We screen trip lists carefully to
limit
> > staff to the minimum needed, and many participants are required to
> > hike in or out at Phantom Ranch if their skills are not needed for
> > the whole trip. Usually, requests for volunteers will be quite
> > specific about the skills needed (fisheries biologist,
archaeologist,
> > geologist, hydrologist, etc.). I doubt most scientist have ever
> > explored the idea of using private boaters as volunteers.
> >
> > I have also copied the Grand Canyon Monitoring and Research Center
on
> > your ancient sand bar monitoring idea, and to let them know of your
> > interest in connecting volunteers with scientists.
> >
> > Oversight for the Colorado River research program in Grand Canyon
is
> > provided by the Adaptive Management Work Group, a 26 member Federal
> > Advisory Committee established by the Secretary of the Interior in
> > January 1997. Four members of that group represent environmental
and
> > recreational interests. Members serve 2 year terms. Grand Canyon
> > Private Boaters can participate either through representatives, or
by
> > attending meetings as private citizens. You might want to talk
with
> > Tom Moody (Grand Canyon Trust),Pam Hyde (American Rivers), or Andre
> > Potochnik (Grand Canyon River Guides) if you are interested.
> >
> > Thanks for your interest. Keep in touch.
> >
> >
> > Robert A. Winfree, Ph.D.
> > Senior Scientist, Grand Canyon National Park
> > Rocky Mountain Research Station
> > Southwest Forest Science Complex #215
> > 2500 South Pine Knoll Drive
> > Flagstaff, AZ 86001
> > Phone: (520) 556-2159
> > Fax: (520) 556-2130
> > Email: robert_winfree@nps.gov
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >______________________________ Reply Separator
> _________________________________
> >Subject: Science River Trips
> >Author: "David Yeamans; CST-7; 5-8832; dryeamans@lanl.gov"
> <dryeamans@lanl.gov>
> >at NP--INTERNET
> >Date: 10/2/97 4:22 PM
> >
> >
> >Dr. Winfree,
> >
> >I have a suggestion that may help solve a major problem:
> >
> > access to the river in Grand Canyon for private river runners.
> >
> >Speaking as a geologist and a former river guide for, among other
groups,
> >the Four Corners Geological Society, I know how hard it is to keep
> >non-boating (in a way 'non-resident') geologists from pecking at all the
> >rocks, leaving marks that we all have to bear for many years. Private
river
> >runners have a great deal of knowledge, skill and sensitivity to bring
to
> >the arena of Grand Canyon science, and I believe that we are an untapped
> >resource for scientific investigations.
> >
> >I realize that some investigations are conducted under huge government
> >contracts advertised in the GBD, and that it might not be appropriate
for
> >private boaters to fulfill some (SOME) of those contracts , but I see a
realm
> >of investigation that is not being utilized. Private trips can supply
free
> >data-taking time, leaving money in the researchers' budgets for
analyses. If
> >a few scientists did not go on the river (cutting in front of people who
have
> >been standing in line for nearly a decade) and let us take data or
samples
> >(with adequate training -- and bear in mind that some of us are the
teachers
> >of today's scientists and authors of their texts) then there would be
more
> >money left to pay laboratories and principle investigators, while at the
same
> >time shortening the wait list for river runners.
> >
> >Who reviews proposals for science in the canyon? Do commercial guides
and
> >outfitters have the privilege? Can the Grand Canyon Private Boaters
> >Association become part of the review process? Have private boaters
ever
> >been given the chance to partner with the scientific community in Grand
Canyon?
> >
> >We can bring a great deal of knowledge, education, experience, talent,
> >equipment, enthusiasm, access, and votes to bear on science in the
Canyon.
> >
> >David Yeamans
> >(505) 665-8832 (w)
> >(505) 662-7747 (h)
> >
> >
> >
====================================================================
To subscribe, send email to majordomo@songbird.com, with "subscribe
gcboaters" as the only line in the message body. To unsubscribe send
"unsubscribe gcboaters". For further information send "info
gcboaters", or see http://www.songbird.com/gcboaters
====================================================================