Re: allocation vs freedom

Judy Zachariasen (judyz@gps.caltech.edu)
Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:14:18 +0600


Dave wrote (among other things):
>
>There is another type of repeater who affects our computation
>of "private demand", and that's the guy (or woman) who is on
>the list, but takes a trip on someone else's permit while
>waiting for his own permit. When this guy shows up to launch
>his own trip, he may have waited 8 years (or whatever) to get
>his permit, but he hasn't waited 8 years to access the river.
>One could say that he's only waited the amount of time since
>his last trip. So in computing "average time that private permit
>holders waited", we should should only count the time since the
>permit holder was last on the river.
>

I think this is, or touches on, a good point that has been largely ignored.
It derives from the fact that the private and commercial sectors are really
two different entities, which is why I think they should be organized
differently. People in the two groups are not asking for the same thing.
Commercial peeps want a family vacation on an organized tour; privates on
the waiting list want to be leaders of a trip where they choose all the
participants. It's not really appropriate to compare the two and suggest
they should be treated as the same thing. It's not right to compare waiting
list people with commercial passengers. It's more reasonable to compare
people on the roster of private trips (only one of whom was on the waiting
list) with commercial passengers. Many of these people did not "wait" any
more than a commercial passenger. Someone with a permit called them up and
said "wanna go on a river trip?," and they said yes. So, while the leader
may have experienced anguish waiting for ten years for his or her permit to
come up, a large proportion of the actual group on the private trip
experienced none and did less planning and organizing and waiting than the
commercial passenger who had to book a trip a year in advance. If you
really want to dump commercial peeps and privates in the same pool and have
them follow the same rules, it seems only fair to insist then that every
person on the private roster be on the waiting list, not just the leaders.
If privates want to have their wait as short as a commercial peep's wait,
then they should organize their trip that far in advance (3.6 years or
whatever) and have everybody on the trip be on the list. There would be the
same options for cancellations that commercial passengers have, which
probably means at some point people have to forfeit a deposit.

Take that one and run with it, folks. Actually, I think it's probably
unmanageable, but I do think it serves to illustrate that it's not right to
compare the people on the private waiting list with commercial passengers
as if they were apples and apples when they're not. The fact remains,
privates on the list and commercial passengers are looking for two totally
different things, thus they should not be subjected to the same exact
system.

Another two cents, but I will NOT go overboard this time in responding to
every reaction to this.

Just to put my position in perspective, so people can see where my biases
are or aren't, so you don't all dump on me: in the Grand Canyon, at the
moment, I'm just a private boater waiting for a permit, not a commercial
passenger or boatman. I have been a commercial guide elsewhere. In the
Grand Canyon, I have been a paying passenger on a commercial trip (in 1980
- that's what sent me to whitewater school and commercial guide-dom). I
have gone down as the guest of a guide on a commercial trip. I have been on
two private trips where the permit holders waited the full 7 or 8 years for
their permit to come up (summer trips)- one trip I knew about well in
advance and planned for, the other was much more last minute (well, last 2
months, anyway). I have been on one private trip where the permit holder
called in for a cancellation (winter trip). I've never called in and gotten
a permit from a cancellation. Actually I have never had a permit myself and
am on the list, with one trip down towards getting booted off it. OK? Now,
those experiences cover just about every way to get on the Canyon except
being a commercial guide there - and having my own permit. So, I think I'm
coming from a pretty broad perspective. And I am therefore trying to see
all sides of this issue. I may have failed at that goal, but I think it
would behoove us all if we all TRIED to think about these issues from all
perspectives not just one.

Well, damn, will ya look at that - I just called while composing this and
got a cancellation. Halleluia, brother - and I took it too. Now I'll get a
look at that perspective too. Whadda ya know? And, who knows, I may be here
looking for participants if I can't find anyone to go with me. (Better get
my private roster together and make sure they're all on the list,eh?)

I'm in a good mood now!

Tootles, Judy

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